Olympia Stone, director and producer of ACTUALLY, ICONIC explains the importance of photorealist artist and legend Richard Estes legacy by giving a more personal look at his process and his life
After growing up in the art world, Stone took to filmmaking to demystify the community and its artists. In her newest film, ACTUALLY, ICONIC she conquers the difficult task of getting Richard Estes to open up about all things from art to the AIDS epidemic. GOOD DOCS spoke with Stone to better understand her experience making the film. Interview conducted by Grace Wagner.
For those who aren’t familiar with Richard Estes, will you first explain his work and what you captured in this film about him?
Photorealism is an American art movement that started in the late 1960s that focuses on the creating of hyper-realistic art. Richard Estes is one of the key members of the photorealist movement and is best known for painting urban landscapes of New York City—street scenes and buildings, bridges, reflections on storefronts, cars, subways, and buses. One of his talents is his ability to render surfaces that contain multiple perspectives created by reflections. In the mid-1970s, he began painting natural landscapes inspired by his home on Mt. Desert Island in Maine. People often react to his work by remarking that “it looks just like a photograph!”
The film shows how, indeed, photography is a vital instrument in Estes’ toolkit. As Estes reveals in the film, he uses photographs almost like a sketchbook to create his paintings. Although the paintings that Richard Estes creates may initially look like faithful copies of photographs, the film reveals that this is not what he is doing. Estes uses photographs as a jumping off point to create visual tricks of perspective and reflection in his paintings, the result is a work that resembles a photograph but, upon closer inspection, is quite different from the source material.
What do you think Estes's legacy is, and how do you think the film conveys it?
Richard Estes's legacy will be as a key founding member of the photorealist movement, who captured an important moment in New York City’s history. His portfolio of paintings from this era document a grittier and more nostalgic time in New York. I hope he will also be equally well remembered for his masterful painting skills.
Estes has largely avoided any spotlight attention. What about this film made him willing to open up?
As every documentary filmmaker knows, the key to making a good film is establishing trust with your subject. Richard Estes is indeed a shy and humble person, and this is one of his most appealing traits in my mind. I have been especially fortunate in this regard because my father had a gallery in New York City for 50 years, and Richard was one of his artists—he gave Richard his first NYC show in 1968. I grew up seeing Richard socially with my family and having dinners at his home with him and his boyfriend, Jose Saenz. Since Richard and I knew one another for so many years, there was a comfort level and mutual trust that made approaching him possible. This was critical for me in making this film.
He has clearly been creating and sharing his art with the world for some time. Why did you choose to make ACTUALLY, ICONIC now?
This is my sixth film about art and artists, and for each film I make I am compelled fundamentally by my love for the artwork. I always want to champion it and share it with the wider world. This is definitely the case with Richard Estes. Another compelling factor for me is that, at 88 years old, he has still not received his proper due from the art world, considering the extraordinary body of work he has produced over the years. He has not, for example, had a retrospective at the Whitney or MoMA—in fact, the only museum in New York that has given him a retrospective is the Museum of Art and Design—and that was in 2015 when he was 83 years old! I really hope the film will shed light on his incredible achievements and talent.
Would you consider this a biographical film?
I do consider ACTUALLY, ICONIC a biographical film. I believe that it always helps a viewer connect with an artist’s work when they know something about the artists’ personal history and where they are coming from. This is not to say that biography is a key to understanding the art itself—in Richard’s case, I don’t think that is true, but it always adds to our knowledge about an artist, in my opinion, when we can know something about their personal journey. I should add that most artists, including Richard Estes, are usually quite reluctant to go into detail about their personal lives, so it always takes some convincing to get them to open up!
What was your goal in making ACTUALLY, ICONIC?
My goal is to share Richard’s work and an appreciation for the beauty of his art with as many viewers as possible.
What was the biggest difficulty you ran into during the filmmaking process?
While I love Richard’s humility and reticence, it presented a challenge during our interviews. Richard does not like to analyze his work—he feels that his work should speak for itself—so it was difficult to get him to talk about his own work in a detailed way. It also took some coaxing to get him to discuss his personal life. Like many artists, he believes the focus should only be on the work, which is understandable, but I do think that learning a little about an artist’s personal life is valuable in helping an audience bond with the maker and the work.
Was there anything that you learned about Estes, his work, or anything else while making the film that you did not anticipate?
Honestly, I went into the film not really understanding how Richard made these paintings or how he used photographs in his work. Like many people, I thought he was more or less recreating photographs in paintings—and doing it amazingly well. When he described how he pieces together different photographs to create the landscape he desires and that there are embellishments and details and perspectives from any given painting that do not exist in the original photograph—that was a revelation to me about the work.
What about Estes’ story is unique, and what aspects do you think are more relatable?
One of the things I love about Richard, and I think this film shows, is what a regular guy he is. There is no pretense about him whatsoever. I think that has a lot to do with who his family was and where he came from: he grew up in the Midwest in a middle-class American family (his father owned a garage) in the 1930s and 1940s. So, his background is very relatable. What is exceptional was his single-minded pursuit of art from an early age. For example, as a teenager, he immersed himself in learning about art at his local library, especially Opera. After graduating from high school, he saved pennies and traveled to Europe—which is where he first started taking photographs and visiting the great museums.
What do you think young artists and art historians can learn from ACTUALLY, ICONIC?
First of all, I hope Richard’s work inspires young artists (and art historians!). One moment I love from the film is when Richard says that painting “doesn’t get any easier”—which I also find inspiring, perhaps paradoxically. He still has to work at it every day. This is an important lesson for a young artist, and for any creative person, I think. Inspiration is all well and good, but you need to have discipline and bring yourself to the work every day and do it. Since no art exists in a vacuum, I hope the historical context for Richard’s work is helpful to historians, by discussing the connections between Richard Estes and the painters Canaletto and Bellotto, as well as more contemporary artists like Frederik Church and Edward Hopper.
Why should those not in the art scene watch the film?
As a maker of films about art and artists, I am clearly biased on this subject! But I believe that a knowledge and appreciation of art should be universal and that art films should not just be designated for “art lovers.” As Art History Professor John Wilmerding says in the film, “Richard teaches you how to see...[his paintings] stimulate the mind, the brain”—the idea being that art is stimulating and often provides a new perspective on the world around you. Plus, looking at beautiful paintings just makes you feel good!
I think some would say that the art world is largely composed of academics, well-known artists, and other intimidating individuals. Do you think this film breaks down those barriers for those trying to learn about art?
Having grown up in a certain part of the “art worlds,” I can say that the pretension and elitism that accompanies much of the art world (there are many different “art worlds” I should say so this is not meant as a blanket condemnation) is extremely off-putting. I have experienced it first hand, and I deeply dislike it. As a result, I have always tried to demystify the art and artists I portray by employing humor and, hopefully, making learning about art entertaining without being vapid. I try not to rely only on academics to “explain” the art to the viewer but to show how art is made by watching an artist’s process. Simply put, I think by letting the artist come through as fully as possible and with as little artifice as possible you can largely avoid those barriers.
How do you imagine professors, artists, and others can use the film in an educational setting?
I could see the film being shown in an educational setting to examine different aspects of art history. For example, the question of how painters have used photographs over time: Richard’s discussion of Manet, Degas, and Eakins’ use of photographs would be instructive here. Or a study of the photorealist movement and the key painters who were pivotal in that group—Audrey Flack, Chuck Close, Ralph Goings, Charles Bell, etc. Painting students could learn by watching Richard in his studio—what colors his palette is composed of and even practical things like using a Mahl stick or buying big shirts at Walmart to use as smocks.
Grace Wagner is a junior at the University of Southern California. She is studying Journalism with a minor in Cinematic arts. In combination with her experience in journalism, she is interested in utilizing the creative visuals of documentary and her passion for social justice to create a platform for marginalized communities and largely unheard voices.